LISTSERV 16.0

Help for HPSCHD-L Archives


HPSCHD-L Archives

HPSCHD-L Archives


HPSCHD-L@LIST.UIOWA.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

HPSCHD-L Home

HPSCHD-L Home

HPSCHD-L  November 2003

HPSCHD-L November 2003

Subject:

Re: fingering fetishes

From:

worldschmitz <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:02:35 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (73 lines)

That's very useful.

I think the notion of 'schools' is a red herring.   We do have notions of
certain practices, but they do not neatly divide by geography and time or
even by individual. That's why I mention Bach,
who fits into many different notions of fingering.  Bach was an amazing
player, according
to contemporary accounts, because whatever he did, worked.
I do remember being told that using your thumb and passing it under are two
different
things; one can finger 1234 1234 without passing the thumb under.

On a similar note, organists often err by playing too smoothly with not
enough 'air' between strong beats.  This is an aesthetic that I don't share,
and
I suppose a valid performance practice for a particular era- just not the
era I'm
trying to evoke!

Micaela Schmitz

-----Original Message-----
From: Harpsichords and Related Topics
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Judith Conrad
Sent: 22 November 2003 15:08
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: fingering fetishes


> I'd strongly question the credentials of people who ask 'what
> school do you use for historical fingering?'  Why? Because Bach used
> 'old' and 'new' system with thumb under and without. So BAch himself
> used two schools.  If you can't hear the difference, then why the
> 'fingering police?'  I wonder what were the two schools that
> person had in mind.
>
> Micaela

I am actually who brought this up, and it was a two-part post,
related but not entirely conflateable.  First part was the keyboard
person who had written in his own fingerings on someone else's Bach
score claiming they were the only possible authentic fingerings. I
simply don't think there is such a thing in the case of Bach,
although I am pretty sure that the heavily-fingered 19th century
piano edition of Bach with the fingerings derived from Czerny and
similar schools are seriously wrong, and I think you CAN hear it in
the playing if you use them. The purpose of those schools is pretty
much to make the playing so smooth that the fingering isn't part of
the articulation or gesture at all, is inaudible and invisible. Not
at all what Bach would have meant, I think, and not all that good an
idea in Schumann or Brahms either, in many cases, though one
certainly needs to play that smoothly in that usic many times.

But the person who came up to me and asked what school of fingering I
used was referring to my playing of Pachelbel, and what 'school' the
pedants would have thought I should have been using is I think not
entirely established for that period. It wasn't actually a stupid
question and I shoudl not have made it sound like it was. Pachelbel
is a bit earlier than Couperin (and from quite a different part of
the world) but considerably later than Sweelinck (but from a part of
the world that had been recently heavily stocked with Sweelinck
students). Does this mean he would have used Sweelinck-type
fingerings? I think not, simply because I don't think they work, they
slow you down too much and make rapid filigree sound choppier than I
think it was intended to. But clearly I shouldn't have been making it
sound as smooth as a Czerny exercise, and I like to think I wasn't. I
was however using my thumb pretty often; Pachelbel did after all have
thumbs. (Bach's feet had heels too, and I use them now and then when
I play his pedal parts.)

Judy
--
http://home.mindspring.com/~judithconrad/index.html

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996
March 1996
February 1996
January 1996
December 1995
November 1995
October 1995
September 1995
August 1995
July 1995
June 1995
May 1995
April 1995
March 1995
February 1995
January 1995
December 1994
November 1994
October 1994
September 1994

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LIST.UIOWA.EDU

UI LISTSERV Documentation | Questions? Contact the ITS Help Desk - (319) 384.HELP (4357) - its-helpdesk@uiowa.edu