From Sam Vause, Nov 15, 1992
Organ: Roger's 760, Conn 650, Baldwin
I have loved the organ since my earliest memories--two or three
years old! (Maybe I built/played 'em in a previous life?!?!) I
took 4 years of Organ while I attended Bob Jones Academy from '71
to '74, and played quite a bit on the Zimmers (both studio and 3
manual instruments) as well as a couple of Moller, Allen, and
Baldwin instruments.
I put feet to my interest in 1979 when I went to work in Greer,
South Carolina, for Conn Organ division of Kimball International.
I worked (line technician, onsite customer support) on the 65x
series (two and three manual theatre styling) of organs as well
as the custom church organs (I forget the model, I think it was
the 830). I quite Conn 3 days before Kimball closed their doors
(March, 1981), and went to work for NCR, now a division of AT&T.
Although I worked for Conn, I own a Rogers (my grandmother's now
got the Conn 650, and I junked the Baldwin). I believed then, and
still do, that they have the best pipe or near-pipe sounding syn-
thesis available. One day maybe I can afford to add some pipes!
In the meantime, I am exploring MIDI, and have combined my Rogers
with a Kawai K3 keyboard and my '486/Soundblaster. It's fun, but
challenging!
I played for a couple of years here at a local congregation, but
lately have only enjoyed other's playing. I have just recently
joined the OHS, and gotten a copy of the Audsley's books (after
having fallen in love with them in 1970!).
I appreciate the ability to network with other people in the pro-
fession via this medium. It's good to hear other's experiences
and opinions, and to "meet" in person. I look forward to a long
and fruitful association with each of you!
-----
From Bruce Shewitz, Nov 16, 1992
Subject: Re: OrganNet: Rock & Roll Hall of Fame!
Reply-To: [log in to unmask] (Bruce Shewitz)
Status: OR
Thanks, Dave, but no thanks. I AM NOT involved in any aspect
of the R&R Hall of Fame...not even as an interested bystander.
I am, however, heavily involved in the concert department of
The Cleveland Museum of Art, where I have been working for
16 years. I assist Karel Paukert (who plays about 30 recitals
every season on our large Holtkamp pipe organ) in running
a year-round classical chamber music and organ recital
series. In addition, I preside over several instruments
(including a 28-rank Kimball) at a large Reform Jewish
temple, where I am music director.
PS--I have a 2MP, 10-rank Estey Studio model reed organ
for sale. Action in good shape, case in excellent shape
(quarter-sawn oak!). Any interest out there???
Bruce
-----
From Dave Schutt, Nov 16, 1992
I had an Estey 2-manual reed organ for a long time. It worked better
than any of the other organs I have :-[ It only had 2 or 3 sets of
reeds with an old-tyme electric motor on the blower. It also had a
crank and windgauge on the side. Oak. I finally got rid of it because
it appeared to be tuned somewhere in the order of a=419 Hz, and it
sounded terrible when it was played with anything else.
By the way, the "light classics & orchestral transcriptions" AGO
concert yesterday was laughable and lots of fun! One of the organists
played the "War March of the Priests" all the way through without
changing the registration at all (including nasty cornopean) except:
1. played both hands on the same manual for a short time
2. the last 5 measures added the 16' coupler
-----
From George Horwath, Nov 17, 1992
Does anyone know what the current state of the Atlantic City
organ is? I believe I read in the ATOS mag that it was being
rebuilt. Any more details on how far along they've gotten?
Also, are there any recordings of that organ available on CD?
Thanks for any info.
-George
-----
From Allan Ontko, 17 NOV 92
Hello Dave:
I received a private message from one of our number regarding my comment
concerning "boring organ recitals" and the current state of non-theatre organ
design. And, I could not help but notice Scott VanOrnum's "smilies" regarding
his upcoming "boring, conservatory-trained" organ recital. Rather than reply
off PipeNet, I thought I would transmit this to you for general dissemination,
if you wish, in the hopes that we might get some discussion going.
Nice to see your "little group" growing so nicely.
Best ---
*****************************************************************************
Dear emskinner:
I've been trying to contact you for years. Mediums didn't work, and I never
thought of using email. . .
Regards your recent comments, as well as the smilies from Scott VanOrnum:
Re: BORING PLAYING
Let me draw on personal experience to explain why I recoil so violently from
many recitals presented these days, and from the pedagogy behind them.
When I was a diligent student at Westminster Choir College (WCC) back in the
late 60s, there was the beginnings of a developing trend in the organ depart
ment towards "historical accuracy" in playing and organ design. This was
right after Alex McCurdy's retirement, and his aura of energetic, exciting,
contemporary playing was still present. Some of the most satisfying playing
and singing I ever heard was at his church in Philadelphia.
My first real organ mentor, Charles Dodsley Walker, with whom I studied in
high school days, always told me to ask why before I accepted anything someone
told me. I went through four organ instructors in my first two years at WCC,
and infuriated each one of them by asking the simple question "Why?":
Why should I finger this way when it doesn't fit my hands?
(Because that is the historically correct fingering.)
Why should I register this way when it doesn't fit this organ's voicing?
(We have to use only the stop names that the composer had.)
Why can't I cross my fingers over my thumb?
(It does not allow proper articulation, and is too romantic.)
Why should I not play George Oldroyd in favor of Pachelbel on the 1929
Austin in my church?
(A good organist only plays good music, not sludge.)
Why can't I study some Widor in addition to Johannes Skronx?
(It really is not organistic in conception.)
Etc.
(More pseudo-historical moose droppings.)
At the end of my second year, the organ department and I decided I would make
a much better voice major. My voice teachers for the next two years were
delighted to answer my whys in practical ways. In the process of learning
about singing, I learned more about organ voicing than I ever did from the
organ teaching "experts". Every organ builder who aspires to tonal design
should be REQUIRED to study vocal performance and vocal pedagogy.
I took organ as a minor my senior year from G. Dene Barnard, now at 1st Con
gregational in Columbus OH (3m VonBeckerath rear gallery/4m Kimball chancel).
That wonderful man restored my interest in organ playing with his eclectic and
open approach. Naturally, he did not stay long at WCC.
Now, after more than 20 years in the field, I see that my whys could not be
addressed by certain instructors: it would force them to question their own
motivation. I think these people were, and remain, so insecure that they
could not bear questioning of their authority.
What are some of the results of 20 years of unquestionability?
WCC at last report was down to a handful of organ majors in the under
grad program - and this at a place which had the largest organ department in
the world when I was there. It can no longer exist separately, and has been
absorbed by a local liberal arts college. Is this true of other schools?
Too many WCC grads can play "the literature" note perfect but cannot
play a hymn in a singable manner. We had one in a prestigious local church:
he only lasted two years. There are many like him.
Attendance at organ recitals everywhere has taken a terrific downturn.
People just don't want to waste their time listening to obscure music played
in an abstruse manner by people with their noses in the air.
Yes, Virginia, there is a real shortage of organists. There are pre
cious few people who will suffer the low salary and utter lack of respect that
today's typical church musician is expected to endure. (Blessings upon you,
Laura Silva - may you be able to retain your enthusiasm!)
Perhaps the one bright note is the success of PipeDreams on public radio. We
help sponsor it on SC Educational Radio, and in metered listenership statewide
it is second only to All Things Considered. Wow!
Why? Because it offers everything in the repertoire at one time or another in
an exciting and informative format which does not regard the listener as an
utter dolt. The pseudo-quasi-baroquish playing of Joan Lippincott is given
just as much import as the free-swinging style of Hector Olivera. WurliTzers
get introduced with just as much enthusiasm as Brombaughs and Fisks.
Would that the organ recital next week at St. Swithen's-in-the-Swamp would be
so open and interesting - and well attended. It might be, if the recitalist:
Gives the people some listenable music played with real phrasing instead
of dry "historical articulation";
Plays what the organ will do best in and of itself, rather than regis
tering by prescription and ignoring the mayhem that comes out;
Does not try to educate the audience as a first priority, but acknowl
edges that they are there to be entertained first of all.
Don't forget, Scott especially, that we as organists and organbuilders are
paid by people to SERVE THEM. We must try to get them into a receptive state
of mind first, and then we might ease them up to a higher intellectual/musical
plane. If we bash them over the head with prissy, precise Bach played on one
registration throughout (groannnn), they will turn off so fast it will make
your sixteenth-notes spin. So then, not only will you not educate them, you
will alienate them so you don't have another chance.
When we are in a church job, playing some Oldroyd won't hurt and having the
choir sing "The Palms" will only ache a little (unless, like me, you actually
like that stuff); but, "they" might then listen when we want to play an Orgel
buchlein piece with "baroque" fingering or have the choir perform the Tallis
"Spem in alium". After all, what matters most: the people, or the music?
Ignore the people, and they will ignore the music. And you.
(Oh, boy. I've gone on again. But not done yet.)
We don't have to compromise musical principles. Just apply them to EVERY
THING. If we play Dudley Buck, then let's play it as well as we play Johnny
Bach. Just keep the mind - and the ears - open.
And Scott, I don't think your recital is going to be boring or pedantic. With
teachers like yours, it is highly unlikely. And besides, you would be unable
to chuckle over my comment...
Ponder this:
"...I totally oppose the notion that you can put Art over here on a pedestal,
and Entertainment down here in a clown suit. Art and Entertainment are the
same thing, in that the more deeply and genuinely entertaining a work is, the
better art it is. ...Every artist is deeply serious and passionate about his
work, and every artist also wears a clown suit and capers in public for pen
nies."
Ursula K. LeGuin, "The Stone Axe and the Muskoxen" from "The Language
of the Night: Essays on Fantasy and Science Fiction".
(I wish I'd said that so eloquently.)
Re: "GOING BACK" TO OLDER AMERICAN ORGANBUILDING STYLE
We don't need to go back to anything. We need to go forward.
"Classic" organs do not have to be shrill or even thin. I've proved this in a
number of organs. A well voiced and scaled "classic" instrument can be very
rich and warm and brilliant.
"Romantic" organs do not have to be turgid. Cavaille-Coll's aren't! A well
voiced and scaled organ in this manner can be clean without losing one bit of
its richness.
It's time to stop trying to follow any old school and turn our attention to
what we can do today without the limitations imposed by past technology and/or
attitudes, but with the wisdom (and foolishness) and knowledge passed from
those before us.
Example: we just finished a 71 ranker at First (Scots) Presb. Church here in
Chas. It is on sliderchests with electric action. Virtually all the new
pipework in it is voiced without nicking yet it does not "chiff", which is
itself a defect in speech. Some of it is open toe, some closed; within a
given rank we may use both depending on what we need to do to get a good
sound. The sounds are warm and inviting, yet they are clean and incisive.
The mixtures are brilliant, but never shrill - including a III Gt. Cymbale
which is in the stratosphere. You can play Bach on full Great plus Trompettes
and with the 32' Bombarde - and hear every blasted note of the polyphony. If
you play Widor or Dupre, you get the characteristic breadth and 8' line; and
when David Higgs played the Durufle Suite on the opener, during that furious
toccata I could hear inner parts that I have only SEEN in the score. Further,
in the George Shearing pieces, he had some registrations with the trems going
that made me think I was back at the Music Hall Wurly!
Pardon for sounding my own Trompette-en-chamade. This is what an almost-
twenty-first-century American organ should do. And, believe me, ANY good
builder with a mind to do so can do it in 10 ranks as well as 70! You can
play any music at all on this type of organ with reasonable authenticity. And
that's part of what this whole game is about: bringing music of all sorts to
the people.
Oh, well, I've probably distressed the hell out of some of you out there in
email-land, and others could not care less. But, if we don't talk about this,
there won't be anything to talk about in another few decades.
As the first Ernest M. Skinner once observed, it's a hard life and precious
few of us get out of it alive.
Any comments, rebuttals, or vituperations will be most welcome. Just don't
sit there silently and watch it all disappear.
Thanks for the forum - -
AJO
-----
From Dave Schutt, Nov 19, 1992
I've just had a chance to read Allan Ontko's interesting comments about
the state of organbuilding, etc. So I want to add a few miscellaneous
comments of my own.
1. First of all, I meant to include the fact that I sold my small Estey
2-manual Estey reed organ for $700. That was 5 years ago or so. I've seen
them advertised for up to $2300.
2. I just heard that they Radio City Music Hall consoles/relays are going
to be either rebuilt or destroyed--depending on your point of view. That
organ is certainly a historic treasure with its one-of-a-kind stoplist and
construction. If any Wurlitzer should be preserved, that one should. I
understand they are going to replace the console pneumatics with Syndyne
like units, and a computer for the relay. Maybe its because the people
there don't know how to fix the original stuff that Wurlitzer built.
3. When I was at the National ATOS Convention in Philadelphia this summer,
there were people who went to Atlantic City and were allowed to see and play
the big Midmer-Losh organ in the Convention Hall. They said it was in terrible
condition. But at least the management appears to be interested in getting it
in better shape.
4. With the interest in baroque voicing that has been so prevalent in recent
years, does this mean that we soon will see a return to the "golden years" of
tubular-pneumatic actions? I hope not.
Allan's thoughts about 'singing' certainly strike a sympathetic chord in my
mind. It seems to me that the best organists do their 'singing' on the organ.
If you don't make the organ 'sing', then it's not musical (classical or
theatrical). The thought of David Higgs playing George Shearing on Allan's
new 71-rank organ in Charleston gives me goosebumps. I wish I had been there!
5. I'm still fighting stuck notes on my Macintosh relay. I thought I had a
fix on it, but not yet. I must stop this now, and get to work on it.
-----
From Jerry Akers, Nov 19, 1992
Greetings:
Regarding your ad in the Diapason for information about an
electronic news group for organists/technicians. I'm an organist
and organ technician and would VERY interested in such a group.
--
Regards,
Jerry W. Akers
Hewlett-Packard Company
ICBD Information Technology
3404 East Harmony Road
Fort Collins, CO 80525
(303) 229-3487
[log in to unmask]
-----
From George Horwath, Nov 20, 1992
Regarding boring recitals, just a few comments.....
I'd swear that many organists don't listen to the music they
are producing. One thing that really irks me is the bleeding
ear syndrome - you know - where the organist's playing makes
it seem as if the organ has a Mixture XXX stop. I recall one
performance I attended at Chicago's Orchestra Hall which
has a Moeller. Famous international organist X (am I supposed
to mention names?) started clearing out the auditorium *before*
the intermission (i.e. during the performance). The same effect
could have been had if the organist's fingernails were scratched
on a chalk board.
Another thing I could never understand is the issue about the
"correct" music to play on the organ. An outside, impartial
observer might say that since the organ has the largest dynamic
range and the most varying timbre of any instrument, it would
be possible to perform most any music on it. But nooooo - the
only correct music is what was specifically written for organ
and not any trascriptions from other instruments/orchestra. I
agree that this attitude is changing but, in many ways, the organ
is still firmly in the grasp of the "nothing decent was written
after 1750" crowd. The fact that JSB transcribed things for the
organ is conveniently forgotten. The funny part is that these same
people think everything (and I do mean everything) sounds great
on the piano. Why, I don't know - transcriptions on the piano get
very boring after a while, because it all sounds so much the same.
It was also mentioned that organists forget they are paid to serve
the listener. Think about it - people are NOT paying (i.e. not
attending organ recitals) because they are NOT getting what they
want. They don't want an education - they want entertainment. That's
how the free market works. The unfortunate part is that so many
people have attended so many organ performances where they did not
get what they wanted, that now they have written off the organ
completely.
I agree totally about looking forward and considering American
tastes and desires in purchasing of organs built by American firms.
Look at Holy Name Cathedral in Chicago. A prestigious spot which
could have been an important statement for the organ and an
American organ builder. But noooo - they end up spending some 1
million dollars on a wheezing Flentrop.
Sorry, I'll stop my ranting & raving. :)
-George
-----
From Dave Schutt, Nov 20, 1992
In response to George Horwath's query about the Atlantic City organs:
Was it George Elmore's "Boardwalk Pipes" that was made on the big
organ? Or was that on the Ballroom Kimball? I don't know if this old
recording has been re-released on CD.
BTW, the ballroom was recently named for Phillips, who originated
the Miss America Pagaent. His son, Adrian Phillips, studied organ at
the Atlantic City High School and has purchased that 5-m, 115-rank,
Midmer-Losh to install in his home in Phoenix. Adrian is in the
restaurant supply business and furnished pizza ovens to Bill Brown's
pizza & pipe organ operations in Phoenix/Mesa, Arizona.
-----
From Cory Edelman, Nov 20, 1992
Dave-
First of all, sorry I haven't had a chance to write the Regional "review" that I
promised;
things have been really hectic at work and home. I have not forgotten, and I may
do it over
the Thanksgiving weekend.
FYI, "Boardwalk Pipes" was made on the Kimball in the Ballroom. This organ is
probably one of
the better "concert/theater" combos that were made, and in some ways resembles
the Radio City
organ, which was built to a similar Kimball spec. I have a reel-to-reel tape of
the album,
that I taped from a scratched-up library copy many years ago. Sometime, I will
try to get it
onto a cassette, and could send you a copy if you are interested.
There are LOTS of neat old recordings that would make nice CD's. So, far,
reissues are very
rare.
I found the recent comments about Boring Recitals absolutely fascinating. We
already have
better reading on our little OrganNet than what one typically finds in Theatre
Organ and The
American Organist. I think it's great!!!
Have a happy Thanksgiving.
Regards,
Cory.
-----
From Dave Schutt, Nov 20, 1992
I missed the Frank Sinatra mini-series on NBC, but a friend taped it
for me. There is a brief scene in it that appears to show a 4-manual
Robert Morton theater organ. I wonder where it might have been filmed.
It doesn't look like a theater, in fact it looks like a ballroom of some
kind. I'll have to look at that part again to see if I really saw what
I thought I saw.
-----
From Laura Silva, Nov 20, 1992
Hello all,
AJO - I didn't mean to convey the impression that things
were always great for me when working a church organist job.
But, fortunately, I have a secular career that is considered
by society to be somewhat useful, and I get some
professional recognition from being a chemical engineer.
Also, I have noticed that my secular employers have been
much better at personnel matters than church employers.
However, there are certain rewards to church jobs that
balance out the negatives. For example, I was honored to be
asked to play for the festival service for our (Lutheran)
synod gathering last year. About 500 folks from Eastern WA
and Idaho attended the celebration service. I played the
Reger organ fantasy on "How Brightly Shines the Morning
Star" for the prelude. (My husband calls it my "monster
piece.") I enjoyed preparing and performing that piece. I
was disappointed that I did not receive any sort of payment
or honoraium for the service playing, not even a thank-you
note from the committee. However, 2 months later, a high
school girl walked up to me after an organ recital by Bruce
Nesbitt and told me that she never liked organ music until
she attended that festival service that I played for. I
quickly jotted down the name of a good organ instructor in
the area and encouraged her to pursue this interest. Later,
I happened to meet her mother, who told me that she was
pursuing organ lessons. The point I want to make is that
even though organists are taken for granted by most, it is
extremely satisfying when some are able to respond to organ
music and their lives are subsequently enriched.
Cheers,
Laura Silva
-----
From Dave Schutt, Nov 21, 1992
The mini-series was really on CBS, not NBC. When I looked at the tape
again, I'm not sure whether the organ was a Morton or a Kimball. Further-
more, it is hard to tell how many manuals it has. There is also another
section of the program where they are walking up stairs in a theater. It
looks like there is a theater organ console in the background.
-----
From Ed Stauff, Nov 21, 1992
I stand here on my soapbox to address the issue of declining interest
in the organ. There is no need for me to demonstrate this decline; almost
every issue of The American Organist over the past few years has contained
at least one article or editorial on this subject, and the few Theatre
Organ magazines I have seen have also recognized it.
While there are many reasons for the decline of the organ, most people
seem to be missing two of the most important ones. I would like to
examine these reasons, and offer one solution to both.
Reason #1
To get right to the point: the organ is, arguably, the most expensive
musical instrument. Even a barely adequate practice instrument (by which
I mean something with a 25-note pedalboard and one 61-note manual) will
cost, new, several thousands of dollars. Is it any wonder what most
parents' reaction will be when their little prodigy-to-be announces a
desire to study the organ?
"Oh, how nice. Let's call up the music store and order one right away...
They cost *HOW* much?!? Dear, how about the flute instead?"
Very few people, especially young ones, have ready access to a church.
Even used instruments are expensive, and often hard to come by. My point is
that for most people, a practice instrument is unaffordable or unavailable.
Reason #2
Let me start out by asking you a favorite question of mine, which I
have been using over the years to make an informal survey:
Given two performers of equal talent and charisma, each performing
pop music of the last 30 years, one playing piano and one playing organ,
which would you prefer to listen to?
Notwithstanding that the audience of this letter is rather biased
to begin with, most people would prefer the pianist. Now why should this
be so? I'm going to go out on a limb here and present my own opinions
as facts. I have been playing classical music on the organ and pop music
on the piano for over 20 years. I have dabbled in classical piano, and
attempted to render pop music on the organ. There is something about the
tonal qualities of the organ that make it, at least as a solo instrument,
almost totally unsuited to the popular music of the last half of this
century.
You might ask, so what? The answer lies in the definition of "pop
music". Pop music, by definition, is music which has popular appeal to
a majority of a population, especially (in our culture at least) to young
people. Young people like pop music, almost by definition. How, then,
are we to interest the average young person in an instrument which will
be of little or no use for performing pop music? Is it any wonder that most
young people turn to the guitar or piano or synthesizer, especially when
the cost of the instrument is also factored into the equation?
A Solution
The electronic keyboard has become ubiquitous. I would guess that most
musical families either own one or are considering buying one. Many piano
students use electronic substitutes (some of which are very good substitutes
indeed) as practice instruments. What if a prospective organ student,
having already studied piano and having in his or her possession an
electronic keyboard, could purchase for under $1000 a 32-note pedalboard
which would, using MIDI, plug into the existing keyboard? The result is
an *affordable* practice instrument for organ music, and an instrument
(including the pedalboard) which is perfectly suited for almost any type
of pop music.
Alas, no such add-on MIDI pedalboard exists as a product. I believe
that such a product, were someone to develop and market it, could work
wonders for reviving interest in the organ. True, a "pedal synthesizer"
(to coin a term) is not an organ, at least no more than an electronic
keyboard is a piano, but it is an instrument on which one can practice
(and even perform) "the literature".
Addition Rambling
Pedal synthesizer has, in the past two years, become my instrument of
choice. I had to design and build an interface between a spare pedalboard
and my PC, in order to connect it with my electronic piano and synthesizer,
a project I had dreamed about for several years before. The result has
been both more and less than I expected. The first time I sat down over my
new (velocity sensitive!) pedalboard to try it out, my reaction was a
subdued "Of course! This is how it ought to feel.", rather than excitement
over something new and different. However, as the months went by and I
explored the growing capabilities of my new instrument, I became more and
more excited by what I could do with it. And not just by the little gadgets
like toe studs that can do one thing when pressed and another when released,
but by entire musical results: Bach's Jig Fugue on pedal harpsichord.
Copland's Fanfare for the Common Man, complete with tympani. Handel's
Fireworks music, with the almost-but-not-quite-the-same oboe and horn parts
clearly distinguishable - something I have been unable to do on a pipe organ.
Transcription of orchestral works are now attracting me where they never had
before, though I'm having to arrange them myself, and I'm discovering new
beauty in organ classics performed using new timbres.
I want to close this letter by saying that, however much I love my pedal
synthesizer, I still thrill at every chance to play a really fine pipe organ.
I don't want to get into arguments about "this is better than that"; each
instrument has its strengths and weaknesses.
-----
From Allan Ontko, Nov 21, 1992
"Boardwalk Pipes" was indeed made on the Atlantic City Ballroom's Kimball
organ; it was "Bach on the Biggest" which was done on the big job. Both were
played by Robert Elmore, who, I think, played his own "Fantasy on Nursery
Tunes" on the "Boardwalk" disk. Exerpts from the this recording are
available from the Organ Literature Foundation on cassette.
Re: the RCMH consoles, we put in a proposal to the management, back when I
was working on the organ, to outfit the Prompt side console with electric
stop actions and solid-state controls. The OP console was to be kept
intact and operational through the original WurliTzer relays and combo
setter boards. I still don't have any problems with this; it sure beats
releathering every 8-10 years, which is how long organ leathers were
averaging in NYC when I was working there. I sure hope they don't use
Syndyne units, though - not very high quality stuff.
BTW, if anyone would like to have a copy of the RCMH stoplist, I have
it in my files. Send me a business size envelope with 52 cents postage
(or whatever 2oz requires) and I'll send a copy to you. PO Box 313
Charleston SC 29402. Just think, 3 mixtures on a theatre organ!
FYI, here's the program David Higgs played last month on our organ. Just
found out, too, that he will be back for a return engagement during the
Spoleto Festival in May 93.
RECITAL PROGRAM - 25 OCTOBER 1992 - DAVID HIGGS
ONTKO & YOUNG ORGAN - FIRST (SCOTS) PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH, CHARLESTON SC
Fantasia et Fuga in g, BWV 542 Johann Sebastian Bach
Nouveau Livre de Noels:
X. Noel grand jeu et duo Louis Claude Daquin
Variations sur un Noel Marcel Dupre
Andante fur eine kleine Walzer in eine kleine Orgel
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart
Pastorale and Toccata (1991) David Conte
INTERMISSION
Sacred Sounds for Organ
There is a happy land
I love thee, my Lord George Shearing
Suite pour orgue, Op. 5
Prelude
Sicilienne
Toccata Maurice Durufle
ENCORES
Canon for Pedal Piano Robert Schumann
Tuba Tune Craig Sellars Lang
*********
Glad to see some response to my long-winded diatribe. Although, isn't
there someone out there who will defend the cause of single-literature
organbuilding and playing?
Thanks for the nice story, Laura. It really makes things worth while when
something like that happens. And, we all know, they ALL aren't ogres
out there; some days it just seems like they are.
Does anyone know what ever became of the Roxy consoles? I remember seeing
them in a studio on Long Island (NY) owned by a fellow named Loderhose (sp?)
back around 1975.
Best ---
AJO
-----
From Dave Schutt, Nov 22, 1992
I believe there were 5 consoles within the Roxy Theater building.
The main auditorium organ had three consoles. Two 3-manual ones, and
the 5-manual one in the center. The 5-manual one was the only one
which played the whole organ. That's the one that George Robinson used
when he played with Erno Rapee and the orchestra in 1927-1928. The
5-manual console and some of the Fanfare Organ pipes were purchased
and removed by Dick Loderhose. A few years ago he sold the 5-manual
console to Phil Maloof for his Ramada hotel in Albuquerque, NM. That's
where it is now, although it is connected to mostly Wurlitzer parts. I
have never been there, but I suspect this is the console that is shown
in the background of the Frank Sinatra mini-series.
The lobby organ at the Roxy did not have a horseshoe console, and it
had a player on it. It was a 3-manual organ. The console was right outside
Roxy's office. I understand that Lew White played Roxy's favorite songs
and nearly kissed him at every opportunity. That could explain why he
got the job as chief organist at the Roxy when Emil Velazco's one-year
contract expired in 1928 and Velazco went to the Mastbaum Theater in
Philadelphia.
The broadcasting studio also had a 3-manual Kimball with a horseshoe
console. George Robinson played it, but he can't remember how many
ranks it had. The main auditorium organ was 29-ranks. As far as I know,
the 5-manual console and some of the fanfare pipes are the only remaining
parts of the Roxy organs.
On another subject, I'd like to know what magnetic stop actions are
better than Syndynes. I understand that Ken Crome had Syndyne make some
40-volt units that have almost as good a toggle action as the good old
mechanical ones. I haven't had the opportunity to compare them with
the 12 or 24-volt units however. I do remember that the Reissner ones
had very weak springs, so they would bounce off in the passion of
aggressive handsful of stop slapping.
I'd like to see someone make a full-size MIDI pedalboard, too. Electronic
organs today are TOOOO expensive. I think a modular organ would appeal
to people who are interested in the good sounds that are available in today's
synthesizers. You wouldn't have to replace the whole thing just to get
Brand Y's fabulous new cymbelstern sound. It seems to me that the only
thing that really defines an organ is the fact that it has a pedalboard.
-----
From Allan Ontko, Nov 23, 1992
To define an organ: it is a wind instrument.
The term "electronic organ" is as much an oxymoron as the term
"winded synthesizer".
Agreed, there has been much advacement in electronic sound production.
However, I think it is at its best as a non-imitative medium.
To seemingly contradict myself, I do think that synthesizers can be
a useful adjunct to the winded organ sound. We are regularly putting
MIDI-out interfaces on our consoles.
I like the idea of a synth pedalboard.
Re: Syndyne units, they may feel good but do not seem to hold up in
the long run: ten-year warranties and all that. Reisners don't feel good.
Kimber-Allen is about the best quality, but expensive and British. We
get around this by only using drawknobs/tilt tabs for most consoles, and
luminous touches (1" square avionics buttons) for consoles where the
organist is not a staunch traditionalist. Scots console has luminous
buttons set in angled, inclined side jambs.
-----
From Scott VanOrnum, Nov 23, 1992
Regarding the MIDI pedal 'Add-on' I believe that there is someone marketing
this already, though I'm hard pressed to remember who or where. It was
discussed on another Board, so I'll check archives to see if there were any
details.
Responding to Mr. Stauff's recent thread about expense of instruments, I would
think that most organ students will study with the organist of their church (or
theatre?), or of a local church and have access to the instrument there. Maybe
not exclusively, but at least enough to prepare for each week's lesson. When I
was growing up, my organ teacher encouraged us to purchase a small Allen for
the home, so as to be independent from church scheduling. Then the cost was
between 5k and 7k. Now you can get one new or used from 7k to 10k easily.
This is not far from certain string instruments for serious string students or
even
a fine piano. If you happen to have money *sigh* there are also small trackers
for 20k+.
The second point of Organ versus Pop music is favorite of mine since I'm a
TProgressive Rock' fan of the 60's/70's (I know, it's not pop anymore, ah well).
I
think the only reason the organ wasn't incorporated more, was that it wasn't
portable enough at the time (excepting Hammonds which they nearly all used).
Groups in their earlier, creative stages such as Yes (Rick Wakeman), Genesis
(Tony Banks, Peter Gabriel), Alan Parsons Project, Gentle Giant and MANY
more used the pipe organ in their albums and loved the instrument. Now with
digital sampling, the pipe organ is just an effect button that everyone loves to
play Tthat Phantom of the Opera tune' with. I'm not completely sure that adding
on a pedal board to synthesizers would change the face of either pop music or
classical organ music merely because there are a lot of synths out there. Don't
get me wrong, I love the idea, but to think it would encourage new organists
would be stretching it, in my opinion. I am happy to be proven wrong, however.
smilie ---> :)
A comment to Mr. Horwath on transcriptions: I have heard more and more
transcriptions being programmed into recitals in the past few years. You're
right
that the organ is the perfect instrument for such literature, but we organists
have
forgotten the art of registration. Fredrick Swann, in a Master Class last summer
said that there are few people teaching the art of practicing piston and
registration changes as a part of normal, daily practice. (of course few
organists
have as many pistons as he does!) When I was in High School, we were taught
registration as it applied to the Skinner, and we were fortunate enough to tour
around the country to play on many large instruments. When I went to Eastman,
I spent the entire undergraduate time learning to deal with registrants on
either
side of a terrible 2-manual VanDalen tracker (nicknamed Tthe VD') for ALL
lessons and recitals. The worst part was that there is a 90-rank Skinner buried
(badly so) in a small 250-seat Hall right next door that we could never use
because of it's tight instrumental scheduling and the fact that the first
several
rows of seats had to be removed to bring up the console every time!! When I
began playing again in the real world of pistons, generals, and even multiple
memories, I had to completely relearn the instrument. Other institutes of
Thigher
learning' have similar problems such as Oberlin with its huge Flentrop
(Fleatrap?) and ailing Skinners, here at U of Michigan with an overused
pseudo-Silbermann meant to harm one's hearing, and another ailing 4-manual
Skinner. I know there are more, and it is NO surprise that people rarely go to
organ recitals unless they know the performer, and I'm no different. (I would be
curious to know the Chicago Symphony Hall recitalist's name-of course we
should use names!)
On the upside, there are some fine organists who managed to avoid the
Tsystem' and become musicians. Last week on Pipedreams, Barone played a
selection from a Thomas Murray album. It was a Rachmaninov piano prelude
done on a big east-coast Skinner that was absolutely stunning. Brought chills
and everything, especially in the middle section (a perfect illustration of
Allan's
singing comment). There is a local Canadian, blind organist named John
Vandertuin who does his own transcribing of Mozart, etc. and does an excellent
job of it. Certainly anything that Virgil Fox did is worth its weight in
interest if only
to counter-balance the weight of E. Bower Piggs (sorry...)
Now, to Mr. Ontko's earlier comments. Not much to say since I agree whole-
heartedly! We organists are at fault for driving away our own Tcustomers.' I
will
say, however, that one other factor may be involved. With the decline of the
mainstream church comes the decline in things involving the church. The organ
with few exceptions is perceived of as a Tchurch instrument' even in concert
settings (of course, excepting Theatre organ concerts). With Sunday morning
attendance being less than it was say in the 50's, or at least the perception of
the church being a focal point in one's family-whether attending or not, it is
hard
to expect an evening organ program at the church to be much different. Just a
$.02 thought.
Allan, congratulations on your installation! I would appreciate more information
on any recordings you might have or are planning for the instrument, and how's
about a stoplist to OrganNet. The Higgs' program is quite impressive, he is one
of the rare new generation of musicians and I'm anxious to see what he
accomplishes at Eastman.
Sorry for the length, but I fear this is my last free time before the holiday
madness sweeps in and I wanted to respond to all that is happening here.
-----
From George Horwath, Nov 23, 1992
Regarding practice instruments....
A good source for used electronics might be the Keyboard Exchange. They have
nice instruments, sometimes for around $2000. The Keyboard Exchange is run
along the same lines as the organ exchange does with pipe organs. The
Keyboard Exchange does refurbish electronics and, I believe, will provide
a warranty. They advertise in the AGO mag and provide listings of instruments
available, both theater & classical organs.
Of course, electronic clunkers can be had for less in an "as is" state but
this could be compared to the piano clunkers available for the same price.
Not a practice instrument which inspires a budding talent.
Supposedly, the piano market is picking up again, but, I suspect,
very few piano teachers will push their students to try organ. It will
depend on the child getting interested himself. And that won't happen,
since church attendance is down - where else will a child get inspired
to take up organ?
Scott made the comment about playing a "terrible 2-manual VanDalen tracker".
I thought there was no such thing as a "terrible" tracker. :) :) :)
Allan Ontko's comment about regularly putting MIDI-out interfaces into pipe
organ
consoles is a VERY positive sign, IMHO. I recall attending a pipe vs electronic
debate a few years back which was sponsored by a local AGO chapter. The pipe
person was asked about putting in MIDI, etc. and he was very negative about
the whole thing. Hopefully, times are changing!
Edward L. Stauff mentioned playing pop music on the organ. Well, I prefer organ
over piano, -- I'm biased :) ...... but I'd like to mention two things....
1. ATOS had an article some time ago about an accomplished, young theater
organist who displayed his talents at a local cinema by playing during the
breaks between movies. One time, he was playing the usual 1920's fare and
started getting nailed in the back with paper wads, candy, etc. by the
mostly teenage audience. Suddenly, he realized what THEY were doing was
caused by what HE was doing. He started playing a medley of some of the more
recent rock hits and, by the time he was done, got a STANDING OVATION!!! This
leads into....
2. As an expert, he no doubt worked out the music using a flair for improvi-
sation, etc. For amateur hobbyists such as myself who lack the skill and time,
there is a significant void of published music in the theater organ style.
Most popular music is published for piano. When published for organ, it
usually means chord symbols (taken to the extreme, it yields the easy-play
series). I mean, I've got some theater organ books published on three staffs,
but its pretty rare. Most of the pros arrange their own music. What is
published,
is the usual 1920's stuff. That's one of the reasons I switched to
and concentrate on classical organ (I like both styles equally well). There
is an enormous amount of literature available spanning
centuries of different styles and out of the heap I can find more than enough
to challenge me at my current skill level.
-----
From Kevin Scott, Nov 23, 1992
Hello, All.
Its nice to see such interesting discussions on OrganNet.
A couple of things that come to mind...
1) I'm also interested in various people's opinions on which electric
stop actions are better than others and why. I will most likely be
buying a 3M Robert Morton console in the next few months. Sometime
before I actually install it, I will want to increase the number of
tabs on the back rail. (Dave...you've got a 3M RM; the one I'm planning
to buy is disassembled and I haven't seen the back rail yet; do they
typically have sufficient height for 2 rows of tabs?)
A friend of mine in RTOS has recommended the Syndyne actions. However,
the RTOS 3/11 has a Trousdale combination action, and its manual warns
that the Syndyne actions have magnetic crosstalk that causes the reed
switches to give spurious outputs (I assume this is only while the
action magnets are energized). This behavior causes problems for
"tripper" style combination setting, and I assume it would be of no
consequence for capture (only) systems.
1A) Similarly, I'm interested in people's opinions about direct
electric chest actions (i.e. I'm planning to use direct electric, and
would like info on which ones are better than others). My friend in
RTOS likes Kimber Allen, however someone else I talked to expressed
concern over having a mechanism where something slides into a cylinder
(as the KA's do) in case of dirt, sawdust, etc.
2) Someone mentioned availablity of a stoplist for the RCMH organ.
On a related topic, I've heard that there are stop dictionaries that
list and describe (?) the various stops that exist. I wonder if there
might be a stop dictionary that includes an audio recording of what
the stops actually sound like, done in such a manner that someone could
enter the sounds into a sampling keyboard?
3) I like the idea of a pedal MIDI controller. For the organ that I'm
planning to build in my home, I am going to start out with 2 or 3
unenclosed ranks (SOFT ones, of course), controlled by a single keyboard
(which I've already built). Moog makes (or made) a 13-note pedal synth
called the "Taurus"; I don't know how it has fared in the market or
whether it's still made. Maybe they could be persuaded to do a 25- or 32-
note unit. I will probably either use a Taurus or set my pipe keyboard
on top of my Lowrey.
4) I unfortunately have to somewhat concur with the reasons given for the
decline in popularity of organ music in recent years, and can add another:
portability (well, at least for pipes). Perhaps availability of a stop
dictionary with audio samples might do a bit to help things.
-----
From Allan Ontko, Nov 23, 1992
Nice to see the great items appearing on my computer screen these days.
Thanks for the info on the Roxy console. Isn't it great to know that some of
these grand old organs (or parts thereof) are still in use.
****
Re: declining attendance in mainstream churches, I think this trend is begin
ning to reverse itself. We are seeing a growing number of downtown churches
changing and growing. Scots church, for example, is in downtown Chas, and
went to two services within the last few years to accommodate the number of
Sunday AM attendees. A lot of the growth here is young professionals with
children, so their Sunday School has grown proportionately. The interest
among the members in the organ installation was tremendous: we had an open
house right after one of their Wednesday Suppers with more than 125 people
going through the organ and listening to my voicing demo. A similar situation
occurred in Savannah when we did the restoration of the Skinner at First
Baptist. At a similar open house, there was a lot of interest. Part of the
organ is located in the attic (typical Skinner installation) and it was amus
ing to see a passel of blue-haired little old ladies purposefully ascending a
narrow staircase so they could have a look in the chambers!
Frankly, I think that the less liturgical mainstream denominations are going
to be the ones to follow for the rest of the decade. The Episcopalians are
turning themselves into Pentecostalists, and the Catholics give less of a damn
than they ever did; but, the Baptists are starting to get respectability, and
the Presbyterians are becoming downright high-church. At least, that's what's
going on here in the South.
As usual, the trick will be to attract the youth and get them interested in
the organ, if we are to survive. And I think it can be done.
****
Got an interesting mailing from P&S Organ Supply in Britain. Among other
things, it showed a new reproduction console for a 4/14 WurliTzer from the
Gaumont Theatre in Manchester which is now to be reinstalled. The original
console was destroyed in a fire, and the new one made this year from original
1935 drawings.
Two consoles for new Japanese organs were also shown - both 4 manuals: one for
an electric action organ by T. Ohbayashi to be placed in a Tokyo hotel, and
the other by a builder named Suto of Yokosuta to go into a new arts center.
Watch out, friends: the Japanese will take over organbuilding yet!
And why aren't WE seeing new four-manual organs being installed in hotels,
shopping malls, and arts centers in the USA?
****
BTW, the man who makes our keyboards just completed the restoration of the
Wanamaker manuals this summer. (No, we are not involved in the work on that
organ...) I understand that the organ is to be completely redone, and a
solid-state combination action installed!
****
Here is the Scots organ specs; we do hope to make a recording of the dedica
tion service and Higgs' recital available to Pipedreams. Other recording
plans are still in the works. Any recording artist is welcome to use the
organ! (Know anybody . . . ?)
FIRST (SCOTS) PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH - CHARLESTON SC
ONTKO & YOUNG CO. - 1992
G R E A T - 82mm wind
16 Principal
8 Montre
8 Principal (ext)
8 Flute a pointe
4 Prestant
2 Flageolet
1 1/3 Fourniture IV-V
1/3 Cymbale III
8 Cornet V mc
8 Trompette
4 Clairon
Tremulant
MIDI Instrument {synth interface}
Unison Off
Positif 16 - 8
Swell I 16 - 8 - 4
Swell II 8
Solo 16 - 8 - 4
Pedal 8
S W E L L O N E - 100mm wind
8 Flute a cheminee
8 Viole de gambe
8 Voix celeste
4 Flute conique
2 2/3 Nasard
2 Quarte de nasard
1 3/5 Tierce
16 Basson
8 Hautbois (ext)
8 Voix humaine {Austin vox-in-a-box}
Tremulant
Unison Off - 16 - 4
Solo 16 - 8 - 4
S W E L L T W O - 114mm wind
16 Quintaton
8 Principal
8 Quintaton (ext)
8 Dulciane
8 Unde-maris tc
4 Octave
2 Plein-jeu V
8 Trompette
4 Clairon
Tremulant
Unison Off
P O S I T I F - 70mm wind
8 Gemshorn
8 Bourdon
4 Prestant
4 Flute a fuseau
2 Doublette
1 3/5 Tierce-sept II tc {natural seventh}
1 1/3 Larigot
2/3 Petite Fourniture IV
8 Cromorne
Tremulant
Zimbelstern
Unison Off - 16
Swell I 16 - 8 - 4
Swell II 8
Solo 16 - 8 - 4
Great 8
S O L O - 114mm wind, Tuba 178mm wind
8 Flute en bois
8 Violoncelle
8 Violoncelle celeste
4 Flute harmonique
2 Octavin (ext)
8 Cor anglais
8 Tuba magna
Tremulant
Chimes
Harp tc
Celesta (ext)
Unison Off - 16 - 4
Swell II 8
P E D A L - 95mm wind, 1-12 of Bombarde 127mm wind
32 Resultant (ext)
16 Contrebasse {open wood}
16 Principal - Gt
16 Soubasse
16 Quintaton - Sw II
8 Principal
8 Basse (ext)
8 Flute couverte (ext)
8 Violoncelle - So
4 Principal
4 Flute (ext)
2 2/3 Mixture VI
32 Bombarde (ext) {half length}
16 Bombarde {full length}
16 Basson - Sw I
8 Trompette (ext)
8 Basson - Sw I
4 Clairon (ext)
4 Cor anglais - So
Pedal Divide
Effets d'orage
Chimes - So
Unison Off
Great 8
Positif 8
Swell I 8 - 4
Swell II 8
Solo 8 - 4
48 registers
71 ranks
3775 pipes
Console shell in Honduran mahogany
Luminous stop controls in sloping, angled bird's-eye maple side jambs
Wood-body keyboards with maple naturals, cocobolo sharps
8 level combination action with adjustable crescendos, tuttis, etc
Transposer (7 steps flat or sharp)
SSL Performance Recorder using 8mm video tape deck
More pistons than you can shake a stick at
Preparations for gallery console and continuo organ
Movable console on pulpit platform
Electric-slider chests for straight manual stops
Some pipes salvaged from the 1949 Austin, destroyed by Hurricane Hugo in 89.
All housed in a room seating about 800 and with average reverberation time
of about 3 seconds - more if we take out the pew cushions.
Visitors welcome, y'all!
It's time for Christmas Tunings, oh joy.
Happy Thanksgiving to All.
-----
From Dave Schutt, Nov 23, 1992
Last night the bishop blessed the 1886 Odell tracker in St. Joseph's
church in San Jose. It performed beautifully, and made a rather
impressive sound for itself. Ed Stout and Dick Taylor & Co. did
the restoration. The regular organist, Lyle Settle, and Kristin Sundquist,
organist at St. Andrews Episcopal in Saratoga, CA, played. Lyle
played Ich Ruf Zu Dir, Herr Jesu Christ (JSBach) & Choral in B-minor
(Franck). Kristin played Ciacona in E-minor (Buxtehude) and Prelude
& Fugue in E-flat Major (JSBach). It is a fairly small organ that
apparently was one of the first organs to be shipped to California
by rail.
Swell Great Pedal
----- ----- -----
Oboe Trumpet Open Diapason 16'
Coronet III Mixture III Bourdon 16'
Flautina 2' Principal 2' Violincello 8'
Violona 4' Twelfth
Stopped Flute Wald Flute 4'
Celeste Octave 4'
Salicional Melodia
Open Diapason Dulce
Bourdon 16' Gamba
Great to Pedal Open Diapason
Swell to Pedal Double Diapason 16'
Swell to Great Bellows
Composition Pedal: Swell p, Swell f, Great p, Great mf, Great f
Reversibles: Great to Pedal, Swell to Pedal
Morton second-touch stop rail
------ ------------ ---- ----
There is really only room for about 30 stops there. Definitely
not room on a stock Morton console for a double row.
Syndyne problems
------- --------
There are definite problems with magnetic interference between adjacent
units if they are close together. The magnetic field from the adjacent
one operating can close the reed relay contacts of the one next to it.
If you just move either one a slight amount, the reed can open. This
makes it sort of hard to diagnose the problem. However, a shield (made
from a tin can or some coke slider material) has always been able to
solve the problem (as far as I know). However, sometimes it takes quite
a bit of trial and error.
Kimber-Allen
------------
Who is their US distributor? Name, address, phone number.
CD-ROM
------
I *love* the idea of a CD-ROM of pipe organ stops. Do you think the Organ
Historical Society would be interested in producing such a thing? I haven't
joined OHS, but I have bought several of their publications.
13-note MIDI pedalboards
------- ---- -----------
I know of three:
Bohm - cheap, and not very playable. I bought one. However, it has
a dandy chip in it that generates MIDI data on channel 1 or 2.
MusiCan International is the US distributor: Bohm Digital
Keyboards, 719 Olde Hickory Rd, Suite F, Lancaster, PA 17601
(717) 560-5609
Roland Works very well. I have been using one
Suzuki MIDI Step, Some of these may still be available, but I understand
they are not being made any more.
I guess I got so excited about the interesting comments on the net that
I went ahead and responded to some of them before I even bounced the
original messages. Shame on me.
-----
From Dave Schutt, Nov 23, 1992
I meant to say something about an organ needing wind in order to be
called an organ. You know there are some (many in the jazz world) who
define 'organ' as a Hammond B-3. As far as they are concerned there
is nothing else that is worthy of the name. As for me, it's hard to
visualize a B-3 as the "King of Instruments." Although I like jazz.
I have lots of reservations and feelings of hypocrisy about my Macintosh
organ relay project. I like old things, and it is truly amazing what the
old mechanical and electro-pneumatic mechanisms were able to do. It really
pains me to desecrate them by cutting wires, leaving them out in the rain,
or adding diodes. However, there are things that I would like my relay to
do that are beyond my mechanical abilities. However, I think I can program
the Macintosh to my satisfaction (sometimes).
The ATOS technical committee (in its wisdom) has designated several
degrees of restoration/destruction. It goes something like this:
1. Original organ/original location/no funny electronical things/
very few stoplist changes (if any)
2. Additions/changes made in the style of the original builder
3. Mixed builders/electronic additions/no style
Does the Organ Historical Society have standards like this to rate
the historical significance of instruments?
In the case of the Radio City organ, it currently qualifies for the
top rating. And the quality of leather nowadays is deplorable, not
to mention the ravages of polution. I can feel confortable in replacing
the electro-pneumatic relay as long as the original equipment is left in
place. However, tearing up the console to put magnetic stop switches in
it would certainly make it very hard to restore to original if that time
ever came.
-----
From Bill Vogel, Nov 24, 1992
About 2 years ago, a local church replaced a 1963 3 manual Seville with
a Galanti (yech!). They were going to throw the Seville away. I said:
"no put it in storage, somebody will want this". I had intended to move
this into my basement at some point, but I just haven't had the time to do it.
Although this is an old, analog 3 manual instrument, it has a large
specification and would be fun to hook up and play. It has a lot of
dead notes and needs some care by somebody who knows what they are doing.
It mostly needs to be gone through, note by note, and have the dead notes
(bad transistors or diodes) replaced.
Equipment includes:
3 manual console
tone generator board cabinet
24 amplifiers in 3 cabinets
approx 100 12" speakers on baffleboards
The tone generator unit consists of about 25 huge circuit boards. Each
board contains 61 to 85 oscillators that generate tone for a pair
of stops. The thing had a large sound because of the tuning variance you
get from so many oscillators.
I am paying monthly storage on this beast and would like to find a
permanent home for it. I will give the thing away to anyone who can
convince me that they won't trash it. It ultimately belongs in a
decent sized church somewhere with good acoustics. I tried to give it to
a local Catholic church who was saving money for a pipe organ. They
decided to spend their money on an Allen MDS-45.
-----
From Dave Schutt, Nov 24, 1992
I think I know someone who has some Saville service manuals. Whoever
buys the organ Bill Vogel is talking about might need some. Let me know.
Dave Schutt
-----
From Allan Ontko, Nov 24, 1992
Seems like I'm on this alphanumeric keyboard more than I am on the musical
kind...
****
SYNDYNE AND OTHER EQUIPMENT:
We only used Syndyne stuff on one organ. The piston units began falling apart
before we even completed the tonal finishing. Never again.
Kimber-Allen used to have an American office, but shut it down a few months
ago. Now one can only order from England, and pay in Sterling. We used their
plunger-type electric valves in a few organs, on as much as 8" wind. Sometime
problem is that the adjustable ports tend to clog up, causing either cyphers,
dead notes, or slow release. They do make a hinged pallet magnet, which is
frightfully expensive. Their stopkey units are "robust", but a little odd and
a lot big. Aside from the logistics of ordering/paying across the pond, KA is
pretty good. Their address:
Kimber-Allen LTD.
Broomfield Works
London Road
Swanley
Kent BR8 8DF
England
Phone: 011-44-0322-63234 Fax: 011-44-0322-68318
We have had a lot of problems recently with Reisner valve units: wide varia
tions in magnetic pull, binding hinges, poor leather on the pallets. Their
stopkey units really do not feel good and, yes, do bounce.
We have recently started using Peterson electric valves. They are easy to
mount (single-screw) and seem to be quite reliable. Also, you can get more
powerful units than from anyone else. Their stopkey units are OK, I have been
told, but we have not built a stopkey console in more than a decade.
When it comes to drawknobs or rocking tablets, we have found Harris units to
be absolutely marvelous. The feel is just perfect. They also make AEolian-
Skinner type toe pistons and "spoons".
****
ALL-ELECTRIC CHESTS
Excuse me if I don't use the term "direct-electric". It is, after all, a
registered trademark and Martin Wick has been known to prosecute. :<
The trick is to use an oversize valve -- about 150% of the area of the pipe
toe -- and drill a big hole in the bottom of the toeboard/little hole in the
top. The expansion chamber so formed actually works in eliminating the valve
slap so beloved by aficionados of that company in Illinois.
When we are doing over EP chests, we strip the pouch rails, drill enlarged
holes in the bottom, gasket the top with neoprene, mount the valve units
directly to the bottom of the former pouch rail, wire it up using Panduit
insulation-displacement connectors, and screw the whole mess back up into
original position minus the standoffs. Works real nice.
Kevin - if I can be of assistance give a yell.
****
OHS GUIDELINES
There are indeed a set of guidelines that the OHS promulgates. They basically
say that if enough is left, return it as closely as possible to original. If
you have to add or replace, either do it in original style or do it in an
obviously modern style so future historians know who to blame. I'll try to
put my hands on a copy and put it on-line.
****
ELECTRICAL CODE
For anyone out there who does work on pipe organs, you may not be aware that
the National Electrical Code section on pipe organs, Article 650, was signifi-
cantly altered in 1990. It mandates certain wire sizes, fusing requirements,
etc. in new organs AND in old organs if you make significant alterations. It
could affect insurance liability and/or coverage. AIO and APOBA were involved
in the update, and are supporting it. Not following it could be a bummer. If
anyone wants to see what this is about, I'll email a copy on request.
****
HYPOCRISY, DAVE?
I used to think about how awful it was to tear out tons of lead tubing from a
pressure-pneumatic tubular organ and replace it with SSL stuff.
BUT: even though the tubular pneumatic actions really were marvels of technol
ogy in their day -- they really didn't work all that well then and certainly
don't work all that well now.
I had pause to consider what I was doing when we did over an EM Skinner organ
and replaced the EP guts of the chests with DE (see earlier paragraph).
BUT: even though the Skinner chest is an excellent action, it was built in an
era when leather lasted at least 40 years, and sliderchest or all-electric
technology could not cope with modern heating systems.
The way I see it, the whole point of the organ is the sound. It really
doesn't matter how the action works, as long as the sound is right and the
action aids and abets that sound. Admittedly, we should retain the best
examples of earlier technology, but the exigencies of reality often do not
permit of this. I would rather have a Skinner organ that sounds like a Skin
ner but has no more leather problems, than an electronic substitute which was
put in because the powers that be could not stomach the necessity to releather
every 12-15 years.
In the case of Radio City, I would do absolutely nothing, were I there again,
to harm the sound of the instrument; but, who is going to know -- aside from
the deafening silence when one would press a piston -- that the stoprails
housed all-electric units? Would it spoil the utility of the instrument?
Would YOU enjoy it any less?
Just think where we would be if EM Skinner remained satisfied with the slider
chest. Or if Hope-Jones thought mixtures were just ducky. And where would
the Coast Guard be without the Diaphone?
As one of my tracker-clacker friends once said, with a straight face:
"An organ has so much more charm when it is blown by twelve sweating men."
Blockwerks anyone?
****
This clown has to go caper for pennies now.
-----
From Dave Schutt, Nov 25, 1992
Well, I have been thinking about sampling the sound of the combination
action and putting a speaker in the console for authenticity.
--Dave Schutt
-----
From Dave Schutt, Nov 25, 1992
The organ in the Frank Sinatra mini-series is not the Roxy console.
Bill Taylor says that some of the filming was done at the Elks Temple
in Los Angeles, and the console is the big 4-manual Robert Morton there.
Happy Thanksgiving to all,
-----
From Sam Vause, Nov 27, 1992
I have a couple of questions, premised upon my visit this evening
to my local Rodgers dealer. There I was shown a lovely brochure
for the pipe additions possible to my Rodgers 760; the two-rank
(flute and diapason, 134 pipes) set that I am considering has a
retail price of $20K. This is a lot of money.
Is there an alternative? Must I buy directly from a Rodgers
Dealer? Have other vendors (gag! what a computer nerd term!)
created products which will work with the Rodgers organs?
Secondly, have you heard a Rodgers installation using the pipes?
Where is the installation? What was your opinion of the visual
aspects of the pipes? For the room you were in, and the pieces
being played, how did they sound?
Thanks for sharing your experiences and opinions!
--sam
-----
From Dave Schutt, Nov 27, 1992
I would imagine that Rodgers pipe voices are somewhat negotiable as are
most organ prices. By the time you add the control arrangements, blower,
chests, pipes and installation, $20K doesn't seem totally outrageous for
two ranks.
-----
From Herb Huestis, Nov 29, 1992
Thanks for including THE DIAPASON on your E-mail list. It's
quite an undertaking, and no doubt takes considerable time to
direct all these messages, but as it grows, it could become a
very useful, informative and interesting forum.
It's fun when things ring a bell. I see that Allan Ontko lists
aviation as a hobby -- I've flown a 4 place Cherokee thru thick
and thin for 15 years and enjoy it immensely.
And I can tell Laura Silva that some of my coldest starts were out
of the Richland airport as the weather dipped well below zero F.
during an organ installation at Christ the King Parish some years
ago. (I can't say that the organ was wonderful, since the church
is carpeted, wall to wall.)
I believe that these E-mail get-to-gethers are what they are
because they are so informal. You can say anything and get away
with it. Both Jerry Butera (editor of THE DIAPASON) and I look
forward to future E-mail events...
Herb Huestis
Contributing Editor
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