PIPORG-L Archives

Pipe Organs and Related Topics

PIPORG-L@LIST.UIOWA.EDU

Options: Use Forum View

Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
Brad Lehman <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Brad Lehman <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Tue, 24 Oct 2006 10:55:13 -0400
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (69 lines)
 >>More Buxtehude from YouTube.  This time, Bernard Foccroulle plays
 >>the Toccata in d minor (BuxWV 155) on the Schnitger organ of St. 
 >>Ludgerikirche, Norden.  This instrument is in the 'Norden
 >>Temperament' which is particularly crunchy.  On top of all that,
 >>the organ sounds a bit out of tune as well, which adds even more 
 >>crunch:
 >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DROr7_YH7eo&mode=related&search=


That "Norden Temperament" was developed c1984 by Harald Vogel, for 
Jurgen Ahrend's restoration of that particular Schnitger organ. 
Disposition:
http://www.die-orgelseite.de/disp/D_Norden_StLudgeri.htm

I included its recipe among my published materials February 2005, 
downloadable from here:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/outline.html
("Supplementary Data" files as "appendix" and "comparative charts"...)
and summarized in a few simpler charts here:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~bpl/larips/comparison.html

That "Norden" temperament is a 1/5 comma system, with all the seven 
naturals plus F# in regular positions, but the other four accidentals as 
compromises (and two wide 5ths) to close the circle.  Like this:
- F-C-G-D-A-E-B-F# all in 1/5 Pythagorean comma, narrow
- F#-C#-G# pure
- F-Bb pure
- G#-Eb-Bb 1/5 comma wide each

Comparing it briefly with Kellner's, since they're both based on the 
same tempering size: the naturals C-G-D-A-E are in the same places.  C-E 
and Eb-G are the same size as in Kellner's.  The F-A, Bb-D, G-B, D-F#, 
A-C#, and E-G# are all smaller (more nearly pure) than Kellner's.  The 
B-D# is Pythagorean (like Kellner's Ab-C, Db-F, and F#-A#).  The other 
three major 3rds (Ab-C, Db-F, F#-A#) in the "Norden" are considerably 
wider, and "wolfish" akin to their sounds in regular meantone temperaments.

The major 3rds F-A, C-E, G-B, D-F#, A-C#, Bb-D, and E-G# are all 
narrower than they are in equal temperament.  Eb-G is slightly wider 
than in ET, and the remaining four are much more noticeably out there. 
That is, this whole thing preserves the same eight "good" and four "bad" 
major triads as in regular meantone systems.

There's lots of variety there when moving from the simple keys to those 
with more than a few sharps or flats.  It's rather like a stronger or 
more intense version of Vallotti's basic shape.  It's also stronger in 
that particular shape than Werckmeister III, IV, or V.  Its closest 
relative here, in overall effect, is Werckmeister IV.

The overall effect is also similar to that of the Fisk organ at the 
University of Michigan's school of music; another 1/5 comma Vogel 
temperament there, with similar shape.
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jkibbie/fisk.htm

I hope this bit of technical analysis didn't completely bore everybody. 
  The broader point is not merely to measure minutiae like this, but 
rather to play music and hear if it works out.


Brad Lehman

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Note:  opinions  expressed on PIPORG-L are those of the  individual con-
tributors and not necessarily  those of the list owners  nor of the Uni-
versity at Albany.  For a brief  summary of list  commands, send mail to
[log in to unmask]  saying  GET LSVCMMDS.TXT  or see  the  web
page at http://www.albany.edu/piporg-l/lsvcmmds.html .
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

ATOM RSS1 RSS2