> George wrote: Marche des Gris Vetus Question.
Bar 14 and others have a double (turn) on one note while the note
directly underneath  has a tremblement lie.
Hints on how to play this will be appreciated.
... It's the opening piece in the fourth order -

> Andrew wrote: Couperin, like Bach, expects and demands complete
independence of the hands.

A very appropriate way to explain a complex matter in a succinct way,
Andrew. Fully agree of course.

Let me just add some details. Although in some cases both can be shown to
expect "parallel realisation of ornaments" in both hands, this passage here
is a good example of the contrary:

- l.h. the short slurred trill on the B flat consists of 3 fast notes
(Bb-c-Bb) taking most (if not all, it depends on the tempo) of the Bb
quaver. 

- r.h. the turn has 4 notes and is fast, taking about the first half of the
crotchet.

Therefore, while the l.h. plays 3 notes, the l.h. plays 4, they are played
independently. Not easy for us moderns, matter of fact in Baroque France.
 
In this particular example, a synchronised performance IS possible, by
playing the l.h. trill Bb-c-Bb as a strict triplet B, and the r.h. as a
triplet bb-a-g, the two hands ending together with A/a: excellent
counterpoint! However, the evidence seems to show -- as clarified by Andrew
-- that this is NOT what the composer would expect in this passage. 

By the way, an alternative that can be applied here is "staggered
execution", i.e. starting the l.h. B flat (first note of the slurred trill)
on the beat, but delaying a split-second the r.h. b flat (first note of the
turn). This is not for beginners certainly.

Sounds very complicated nowadays. However, in Baroque France the performance
of ornaments was an essential part of music making: they heard it all around
as babies even before they were trained as musicians. We are lucky they have
left a few pieces of writing and barrel-organs that give us some essential
clues!

Best

CDV
http://play.braybaroque.ie/



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