Hello List,

As a piano major I was never really concerned with 
temperament...basically annoyed with unisons/octaves if they were 
out-of-tune.  When I was suddenly out-in-the-field directing high school 
choirs, I quickly learned to listen and disect, an absolute neccessity 
when working with ensembles. I "stumbled into" tuning when a kind 
neighbor loaned me his harpsichord for the summer, and I found that I 
could tune just intervals easily...and play in one key, but non-diatonic 
tones and transposition were problems, so the next summer when I again 
had the harpsichord I took a historical tuning course offered here (East 
Lansing, MI), and was smitten.  I think that tuning just intervals is 
quite natural, and they are easy to hear. Initially I could not tell 
which pitch was off, but as Heikki wrote, a simple turn of the hammer 
either way made the beat faster or slower, answering the question.  I 
tune pianos in equal temperament, and now I do know if a pitch is sharp 
or flat, and can generally find pitches without hearing them (well, not 
in a specific temperament!).  This is not an innate talent, it is simply 
a developed skill, because I studied tuning and do it often, like 
practicing, the more you do it, the better you become.  I now 
occasionally give lecture/demonstrations to local Michigan piano 
teachers' guilds, and there is always some amazement in listening to 
non-equal temperaments, and the vast change of colors possible.  This 
year I was preparing a lecture on temperaments and doctrine of 
affections in conjunction with the WTC I of Bach, when I joined this 
list, and was introduced here to the various theories/opinions on 
temperament...especially surrounding Brad Lehman's theories, which to 
me, seem so absolutely plausible, and complement the WTC so well (no pun 
intended).  I think I've drifted off topic a bit, but I believe it is 
our lack of experience with the sound of various temperaments (not this 
list, but the general public) and tuning, not the innate ability to hear 
them.

One final thought, in singing choral music...it is so much nicer to sing 
early music without the annoying thirds of equal temperament, which are 
so out-of-tune.  So often it is that third...whichever part has it, that 
is out-of-tune with the piano.  Our natural inclination is to sing it just.

Cheers!
Penny Draper

Philip Bayles wrote:

>On Sun, May 6, 2007 1:19 pm, Heikki Levanto wrote:
>  
>
>>On Sun, May 06, 2007 at 12:48:33PM -0700, Philip Bayles wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>The width of the window of "close enough" pitch varies widely from
>>>person to person. Some people (skilled musicians, one hopes) can
>>>discriminate pitches that are very very close together. However,
>>>some people cannot discriminate between pitches that are even wider
>>>than  a half step.  [...]
>>>
>>>It seems to me that the distribution of this curve shows why the
>>>vast majority of people in this world probably do not care about the
>>> questions of keyboard temperaments: they (demonstrably) cannot
>>>hear the pitch differences involved.
>>>      
>>>
>>Here I must object a bit! When I tune my wreck of a harpsichord, I
>>can easily hear when the first tune matches the tuning fork, or when
>>it is off by some small measure. But I can not often tell which of
>>them is higher or lower. (That is easily solved byt turning the tuning
>>hammer a bit, and noting if the problem gets worse or better).
>>
>>The problem of distinguishing two keyboard temperaments is not the
>>same as distinguishing which of two tones is the higher. I have a gut
>>feeling that more people can notice the difference in temperament,
>>even if they can not put exact words on it. Admittedly, still a small
>>fraction of the population, and admittedly many of them consider
>>anything non-ET to be 'out of tune'. But still...
>>
>>
>>-H
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Heikki Levanto   "In Murphy We Turst"     heikki (at) lsd (dot) dk
>>
>>    
>>
>
>Objection noted.
>
>You are possibly correct.  I considered commenting on this issue, but
>thought my original post was getting too long. Everything in my post
>had to do with tones in sequence, and not tones sounded together.
>Tones sounding together create all manner of interference effects,
>like beats. The process of tuning with beats is completely different
>from listening to sequential pitches. So yes, I can imagine there
>might be folks out there who perhaps could not sequentially hear the
>difference between an ET and a pure third, but who could develop a
>taste and appreciation for the beatlessness of pure intervals.  Maybe
>the majority is not so vast as I imagine.....
>
>
>  
>