Many thanks Frank!
Wouldn't it be great if every player - including some famous ones - at least tried to understand this.
All the best
Philip Kimber
-----Original-Nachricht-----
Betreff: Re: Authenticity, le bon gout
Datum: 2016-01-08T15:27:05+0100
Von: "mento" <[log in to unmask]>
An: "[log in to unmask]" <[log in to unmask]>
Here is what Michel de Saint-Lambert says: "Cette égalité de mouvememt que
nous demandons dans les Notes d'une même valeur ne s'observe pas dans les
Croches, quand il y en a plusieurs de suite. On a coutume d'en faire une
longue et une brève successivement, parce que cette inégalité leur donne
plus de grâce...Cependant, cette inégalité de plusieurs Croches de suite, ne
s'observe plus dans les Pièces dont la Mesure est à quatre temps, comme par
exemple dans les Allemandes, à cause de la lenteur du mouvememt. Alors,
l'inégalité tombe sur les doubles croches, s'il y en a." ("This equality of
movement that we ask for in Notes of the same value is not observed in
Eighth Notes (Quavers), when there are several that follow. We have a habit
of making one long and one short successively, because this inequality gives
them more grace...However, this inequality of several Eighth Notes (Quavers)
that follow is no longer observed in Pieces that are in four-beat Meter, as
for example in Allemandes, on account of the slowness of the tempo. So,
inequality falls on the sixteenth notes (semiquavers), if there are any".)
"Les Principes du Clavecin", Paris 1702. Kenneth Gilbert says: "In any case,
one should not be thinking in terms of "applying inégalité as a sort of
final decoration to the music. It should be felt as being organic to the
basic pulse which, in slow to moderate expressive passages especially,
follows a ternary subdivision rather than a binary one? The music does not
therefore properly exist without some degree of unequal subdivision".
Rameau, "Pièces de Clavecin", Gilbert, Kenneth, ed., Heugel (LP 59), Paris
1979.
Sincerely,
Frank Mento
-----Message d'origine-----
De : Harpsichords and Related Topics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] De la
part de Michael Brazile
Envoyé : vendredi 8 janvier 2016 14:15
À : [log in to unmask]
Objet : Re: Authenticity, le bon gout
Thanks Philip, and thanks to Owen for his input.
I can only say that I am not against doing something that has historical
precedent
or that the composers asked for - like inégale. To take this back to
Claudio's
issue with this unnamed player's disuse of inégale Personally, I find
inégale to be the essential
element that makes most French courantes come alive in the harpsichord and
lute music
of the 17th century; but I find myself applying it to pieces and sections of
pieces because it "SOUNDS RIGHT" and musically satisfying to me, not because
the composer told me I had to do it. The same goes with ornaments, I take
them out
and add them as I see fit.
My last word on this is simply that, just as Claudio finds it pitiable that
a player would not
use inégale in a place that a composer said it "should" be used, I find it
disappointing
when people dismiss a performance simply because it does something that the
composer
would not have sanctioned or envisioned. At the end of the day, I play
music - with the harpsichord
as my medium - in order to have a transcendent experience. Where that
starts getting muddled
and dragged down to satisfy for "correctness" or "authenticity" or "style",
I have absolutely no interest.
Have a great weekend all.
On Thu, Jan 7, 2016 at 4:13 PM, Philip Kimber <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:> I've been following the present discussion between Michael Brazile and> Claudio Di Veroli with great interest because this whole idea of "le bon> gout" has been going round in my head for some time.> I find myself agreeing with both of you! In order for our composers to> "move" us we need all the mannerisms of their time. And the greatest joy> can be found in trying various amounts of "inégale" , "suspension",> playing a mordent, for example, more slowly or faster.> Simply playing the music "as written", perhaps even leaving out the> ornaments, just makes it boring. I think that romantic piano music, too,> has to be played with discipline, i.e. correctly but also with suitable> rubatos, accelerandos, crescendos etc, i.e. with all the "mannerisms" of> its period for it to touch our feelings. It would be a poor pianist who
did> nothing but get all the notes right! A machine can do that. But the basic> question still remains:> What is this good taste? I feel there are many answers - and that's
great!>> Best> Ph.>> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::> Note: opinions expressed on HPSCHD-L are those of the individual con-> tributors and not necessarily those of the list owners nor of the Uni-> versity of Iowa. For a brief summary of list commands, send mail to> [log in to unmask] saying HELP .> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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