Dear Andrew,

I appreciate your comments. And agree with you -- mostly.

I disagree about "false facts" being one of the "horrid new terms". As I
mentioned earlier, "false facts" is a phrase from the last chapter of
Charles Darwin's *Descent of Man* (1871), so it has a solid pedigree -- and
the warning it implies is just as solid. Darwin's Victorian certainties
can't be the same as our hopes and dreams today. After all, he was writing
at a time when evolutionary theories were also alive and well in music.
Wagner and Brahms were seen as the evolutionary perfect versions of
imperfect earlier styles, just as the late nineteenth-century pianos were
seen as the evolutionary perfect versions of earlier keyboards. I think
most people on this list probably don't hold that approach to be valid. But
that's not a reason to throw out Darwin.

It's worth citing him again, in full, to give him the credit he's due -- no
more, no less. What Darwin wrote was:
"False facts are highly injurious to the progress of science, for they
often endure long; but false views, if supported by some evidence, do
little harm, for everyone takes a salutary pleasure in proving their
falseness; and when this is done, one path towards error is closed and the
road to truth is often at the same time opened"

So I accept your point. I should have written "false views" not "false
facts." Thank you for pointing that out.

Professor Neumann and his followers are certainly entitled to their views.
By no means everyone agrees with them. When it comes to pleasure, that's of
course a more personal matter. Many of us find some pleasure on this list
in doing exactly what Darwin said (although I'm not sure the pleasure is
always salutary). As for the rest, the "path" we're on etc., I like to
think we're all side-by-side walking in our own ambling ways along the road
to some sort of truth, but of course we're all still a long way from any
goal... assuming such a fixed goal really exists. And the path is, I hope,
covered with ornaments of all sorts. There's a place of Neumannian
ornaments for those who choose to support those views... But I choose to
walk on the other side of the road (most of the time).

​As for Charmand/Marchand, I'm sending a separate message on that.​

With all best wishes,
DM





*Davitt Moroney​​Professor Emeritus Department of Music*

*Morrison Hall*


*​University of California, Berkeley​CA 94720-1200*

On Sat, Dec 2, 2017 at 12:22 AM, Andrew Bernard <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:

> Hello Davitt,
>
> Surprising email. It may be better to confine remarks accusing people of
> making up 'false facts' and 'fake news' to political contexts, whence these
> horrid new terms arise. I hardly think it credible that Prof. Jarvis has
> created his work with the deliberate intention to deceive the population
> for political, or even academic ends. I hardly think the recent chat about
> works attributed to Marchand classifies as deliberately created 'fake news'
> Perhaps the chap who made the recording was having a marvellous joke, to
> poke fun at the pundits! Just like Mr Leonhardt and Mr Skowroneck did
> precisely with the Lefevbre instrument - yes, a fake, but primarily an in
> joke.
>
> By the way, you mentioned you would debunk the 'Charmant' matter when time
> permits. Instead of quickly dismissing it as fake news, it would be great
> to hear from you on that.
>
> It seems like anything that people disagree with is now rapidly dismissed
> as fake news, the critic saying this assuming that means they have
> immediately therefore won the argument and the matter is settled. Where did
> this disturbing trend come from? It's a dumbing down of discourse. I shall
> refrain from discussing politics on this list as off topic, but this mode
> seems to have arisen from the current American political context. I don't
> think it is a grand new concept applicable to any type of discussion.
>
> As for applying our own critical and rational faculties, give Prof. Jarvis
> the credit for indeed doing that himself.
>
> Take my comment here in the critical and rational spirit in which it is
> intended, with no personal criticism intended!
>
> All the best from Down Under.
>
> On 2 December 2017 at 09:37, Davitt MORONEY <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > Indeed. Another example of newly created "false facts".
> >
>
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::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Note:  opinions  expressed on HPSCHD-L are those of the  individual con-
tributors and not necessarily  those of the list owners  nor of the Uni-
versity of Iowa.  For a brief  summary of list  commands, send mail to
[log in to unmask]  saying  HELP .
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