Dear Dale,
Allow me to clarify; I think we approached this question with different
assumptions. Firstly, I assumed we were not discussing 1/4 comma meantone,
as any traditional tuning of it would make an unplayable F minor. Tuning a
1/4 comma meantone that allows for F minor makes me question why the
composer would bother to write in that key if it were going to cause the
tuner some extra trouble just so the music sounds like it's in any other
minor key. As our colleague James asked about tuning for music in F minor,
I would assume he is considering 1/6th comma, or a more gentle meantone
variant in which one is making choices between enharmonic tones, but not
with the binary 1/4 comma equation of 'perfect or unusable.'
I used "angular temperaments" poetically to describe temperaments with
strong differences between keys or modes and harmonies. 1/4 meantone would
be the *most* "angular", where equal temperament would be the *least*
angular. Let's say D'Alembert is quite angular and Valotti hardly at all.
Where we've crossed wires is over "key characteristics." My descriptions of
the heavily-tempered C and F minor are nothing imputed; they are my own
(poetic) interpretations of the sonorities belonging to them. In my
distinction between them, I called C minor "relatively dignified" because
the C minor triad generally has a good major third between Eb and G. F
minor I called "utterly tortured" because the corresponding usual G# and C
is not good (depending by degree on the temperament being used). They both
have a very characterful narrow 5th to 6th, but raising the G# to make it
sound more like an Ab would just turn F minor into a transposed C minor, in
my view. So, my answer to James' question above is: no. The particular
flavor of F minor is the narrow 1-3 interval, and he should relish it in
its tragic obscurity!
Very best,
Dylan
On Wed, Jul 20, 2016 at 1:02 PM, dcc <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> May I amplify/correct/question?
>
> In the first place, key characters are as good as non-existent when pure
> meantone is used. A sort of bias might be observable, as it is in modal
> "harmony", due to avoidance e.g. of certain tones. But imputing key
> character in meantone to the use of mistuned tones is absolutely a
> contradictio in terminis.
>
> I'm avoiding the question of whether meantone was *intended* to be used in
> pieces requiring strings or pipes mistuned according to the harmonic
> spelling of the piece. I've understood that sources frequently advise
> against this practice.
>
> The concept of key, or tonality, in the "meantone period" - if indeed it
> existed then - was not the same as ours; it developed gradually during the
> later 17th & 18th centuries. The corrollary must be that their concept of
> key character, if they had one, must also be distinguished from ours. It
> is far better, imho, to approach Froberger's or Pachelbel's or Buxtehude's
> - or maybe even Bach's - sense of harmony from their background in modal
> practices, than from the vantage point of our modern 21st-century harmony
> courses.
>
> Is there a precise description of "angular temperaments"? I'm not
> familiar with this term.
>
> Regards,
> Dale
> ================
>
> -----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
> Van: Harpsichords and Related Topics [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Namens Dylan Sauerwald
> Verzonden: Wednesday, July 20, 2016 14:53
> Aan: [log in to unmask]
> Onderwerp: Re: Temperaments and the Korg OT-120 tuner
>
> David is exactly right; If I may, I'll expand on his point. I think the
> notion of 'correctness' in temperament, rather than expressive potential,
> is unhelpful. The specific character of F minor comes from the low third,
> as it's the only thing that separates it from C minor. In angular
> temperaments, both have a very potent low 6th, but the relatively dignified
> C minor at least has a stable tonic triad, which an utterly tortured F
> minor lacks. 'Correcting' the Ab, I would say, is a mistake (unless, of
> course, one is in a temperament so severe that F minor is unplayably sour).
>
> Dylan
>
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2016 at 11:27 PM, David Pickett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > At 02:04 20-07-16, James McCarty wrote:
> >
> > >Please forgive an amateur's question. If you are playing in F minor,
> > >as I am much of the time, don't you need Ab rather than G#?
> >
> > It would follow. BUT...
> >
> > F minor is such a dark and mournful key, that there are those that prefer
> > the g# tuning to add to this effect!
> >
> > David
>
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