All,
Of course I must put in a word for D'Agincour's use of a e''' in "La Moderne." The remainder of the pieces in his sole publication of 1733 rarely go above c''', so there's a kind of musical witticism here in that the piece is modern both in terms of style and range!
A note on Soler: although he may have written some of his sonatas with the piano in mind, there were both harpsichords and pianos in the palace at Escorial. According to researches by John Koster, Prince Gabriel actually owned 2 harpsichords by Diego Fernandez with a range FF-g'''. And Soler really exploits this range frequently. I like to imagine him and the Infanta playing these passages and chuckling with glee at the two new notes on the bottom, although perhaps my novelistic imagination is getting the better of me.
Rebecca
Sent from my iPad
rebeccapechefsky.com
> On Oct 30, 2016, at 12:00 AM, HPSCHD-L automatic digest system <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> There are 15 messages totaling 671 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
> 1. HPSCHD-L Digest - 26 Oct 2016 to 27 Oct 2016 (#2016-196)
> 2. Italian 2 x 8' for sale
> 3. Tapered Tuning Pins
> 4. Historical harpischord ranges (12)
>
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 05:15:36 -0500
> From: Martin Spaink <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: HPSCHD-L Digest - 26 Oct 2016 to 27 Oct 2016 (#2016-196)
>
> I have a Zuckermann French double over from Norway. When removing the strings, when wanting to pull off the coils from the tuning pins, many of those just came out. These are the tapered pins, that have quite a long tapered point, and consequently, as rather small length of cylindrical full width inside the plank. In this case I choose to replace them for fully cylindrical pins that are only mildly chamfered at the bottom. Should make a lot of difference!
>
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 05:32:12 -0500
> From: Martin Spaink <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Italian 2 x 8' for sale
>
> Hello all,
>
> A 220 long single manual 2 x 8' Gg-g''' has become available for sale. I went to see it yesterday, made photo's etc and took stock of it. The instrument is in excellent condition, will be fully checked and regulated by me. Case made in Cypress, Wooden jacks. It comes with a lightweight travel case.
> Will sell for 4750,- PM me for detailed info and pictures. Due to certain sensitivities I purposely do not disclose the maker. It will be in my shop in Amsterdam and can be shipped to any destination.
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 08:19:59 -0400
> From: Rob Brooke <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Tapered Tuning Pins
>
> Martin, was the instrument having problems with the tuning pins not
> holding and allowing notes to go flat. I can understand your
> consternation in having the pins pop out of their holes as you were
> removing wire. However, if the pins were doing their job, why replace
> them? I should think that tapered pins were an advantage, as a tap on a
> pin would certainly tighten it in its hole. Of course, cylindrical pins
> will doubtless hold strongly against the tension of the strings and
> that's good. However, they are something of a pain to remove if one must
> replace a string, while the "pop-out" feature would then be an advantage.
>
> Of course, if the tapered pins are not holding against the string
> tension, they should be replaced.
>
> Just curious,
>
> Rob
>
> --
> ROBERT BROOKE HARPSICHORDS
> 4214 18th Ave W
> Bradenton, FL 34205
>
> www.robertbrookeharpsichords.com
>
> 941-746-6725
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 16:13:18 +0200
> From: "J. Claudio Di Veroli" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Historical harpischord ranges
>
> I apologise if this matter has already been discussed before in this list.
>
> I am particularly interested in the historical transition between the two
> last relatively-stable harpsichord ranges:
> GG-d''' with no GG#, and FF-f''' fully chromatic.
>
> (I am excluding exceptional mostly Italian early Baroque ranges where the
> tuning fork was sometimes far away from any later established ones. I also
> exclude Iberian keyboards up to g''' scored by D. Scarlatti and A. Soler).
>
> I will be happy to be shown wrong/incomplete in the following statements:
>
> BASS FF
> - François Couperia scored FF only once, in La Bandoline (Premier Livre
> 1713): he had it printed in diamond shape as optional.
> - Rameau scored FF is by Rameau in Les Cyclopes (1724).
> - Rameau later used it frequently in his IVe. Concert (1741).
> - (Note: in a few Sonatas, written most likely after 1741, D. Scarlatti
> scored FF but neither FF# nor GG#: he is thus likely to have meant them for
> the usual Iberian range chromatic down to GG, retuning GG# as FF.)
>
> BASS GG#/AAb
> - AFAIK F. Couperin never scored this note, even though it was included in
> all the keyboards going down to FF.
> - J.S. Bach scored this note in the 3rd mov. of the Concerto for Four
> Harpsichords BWV1065 (c.1736).
> - Rameau also did in La Timide from the IIIe Concert (1741).
> - A few years later the GG# had become common, Forqueray scoring it
> frequently in his Pieces (1747).
>
> BASS FF#
> - I cannot find any Baroque score including this note. This is perhaps not
> surprising as most keyboards did not have it before 1750, although quite a
> few surely had: Corrette depicted a fully chromatic FF-e''' keyboard (1749).
> - The earliest FF# I have found is by Antonio Soler, in sonatas composed
> after 1750 and surely intended for the fortepiano.
>
> TREBLE e'''
> - J.S. Bach scored it in the little prelude BWV936 (c.1720 but possibly
> meant for a small clavichord).
> - Rameau used it frequently in his pieces from Les Indes Galantes (1735).
> - J.S. Bach scored it again in the 3rd mov. of the Concerto for Four
> Harpsichords BWV1065 (c.1736).
> - He also scored it in The Art of Fugue (1750).
>
> TREBLE f'''
> - I cannot find any non-Iberian harpsichord score including this note, in
> spite of J.-J. Rousseau showing a fully chromatic FF-f''' range (1765).
>
> Comments/contributions are welcome!
>
> CDV
> http://harps.braybaroque.ie/
>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 17:52:32 +0200
> From: dc <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Historical harpischord ranges
>
> Le 29/10/2016 16:13, J. Claudio Di Veroli écrit :
>> BASS GG#/AAb
>>
>> - J.S. Bach scored this note in the 3rd mov. of the Concerto for Four
>> Harpsichords BWV1065 (c.1736).
>
> Also several AAb's in the fugue of BWV 998.
>
> According to Wikipedia, "The piece was written around 1735. The original
> manuscript with the title "Prelude pour la Luth ò Cembal c [???] par J.
> S. Bach" was sold at Christie's on July 13, 2016 for £2,518,500."
>
> Dennis
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 19:20:41 +0200
> From: "J. Claudio Di Veroli" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Historical harpischord ranges
>
>> Dennis wrote: Also several AAb's in the fugue of BWV 998.
> According to Wikipedia, "The piece was written around 1735. The original
> manuscript with the title "Prelude pour la Luth ò Cembal c [???] par J.
> S. Bach" was sold at Christie's on July 13, 2016 for £2,518,500."
>
> Thanks Dennis! One more to be added!
>
> Best regards,
>
> CDV
>
> PS: Alberto Basso's "Frau Musika ...JSBach" vol. II pp. 667-670, confirms
> that this is not a work meant for the Lautenwerk. He also notes that the
> date is believed to be around 1740-45. If so, the AAb would not be that
> unusual.
>
>
>
> ---
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 12:30:08 -0500
> From: Keith Womer <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Historical harpischord ranges
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 9:13 AM, J. Claudio Di Veroli <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> TREBLE f'''
>> - I cannot find any non-Iberian harpsichord score including this note, in
>> spite of J.-J. Rousseau showing a fully
>>
>> chromatic FF-f''' range (1765).
>>
>
> The second movement of Bach's Triple Concerto in
>
> A minor BWV 1044 goes to both e''' and f'''.
>
> Keith Womer
>
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 19:59:04 +0200
> From: "J. Claudio Di Veroli" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Historical harpischord ranges
>
>> Keith wrote: The second movement of Bach's Triple Concerto in A minor BWV 1044 goes to both e''' and f'''.
>
> Thanks Keith!
>
> I know this work well, of course. I did not include it in my list because its authorship has been contested. In the sleeve notes to his LP, Gustav Leonhardt asserted that it was almost certainly spurious, and I concur with this impression. Leonhardt found also that the most likely author was Müthel, writing about the time of JSBach's death.
>
> (The very fact that it gose up to f''' is one element for the doubtful authorship: it has been argued that, if it were authentic, it would date from Bach's Weimar period, when German harpsichords did not go that high up.)
>
> CDV
>
>
>
> ---
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 11:16:26 -0700
> From: Davitt MORONEY <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Historical harpischord ranges
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 7:13 AM, J. Claudio Di Veroli <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> TREBLE f'''
> - I cannot find any non-Iberian harpsichord score including this note, in
> spite of J.-J. Rousseau showing a fully chromatic FF-f''' range (1765).
>
> -------------------------------------
>
> There's a high treble f ''' in Rameau's *Pièces de clavecin en
> Concerts *(1741).
> His famous recommendation for players who don't have the note is for the
> fifth finger to "play" the wooden block to the right of the end of the the
> keyboard instead... in other words, simply to pretend the note is there,
> and play as if it is -- without altering the fingering of the passage or
> substituting another note in the F-major harmony (such as the a'').
> I've played this work on a harpsichord that stops at high e '''. Doing
> precisely what Rameau suggests does work musically. The ear supplies the
> missing high f''', a nice aural illusion.
>
> We might also like to think about a second list, including all the
> practical "fixes" suggested by composers in cases where players might not
> have had (or have today) certain notes. So far, I have this:
> -- 1) Couperin's lozenge notes (1713) for the low FF;
> -- 2) Couperin's suggestion in *L'Art de toucher le Clavecin* (1716) to
> transpose a passage down an octave if the keyboard has no high d''';
> -- 3) Rameau's suggestion (1741) to pretend the high f''' is there.
> -- 4) In the same vein is Couperin's suggestion for playing a *pièce
> croisée *on a single-manual instrument: transpose the left hand down an
> octave for the whole piece. This, by the way, produces another phantom low
> FF at the end of *Le Tic-Toc-Choc.*..
> Are there any non French additions for this list?
>
> There are also the odd cases in d'Anglebert (see Gaillarde in G major, 4th
> measure of the second half, left hand) where he writes a widely space chord
> encompassing a tenth, but indicates alternative notes with "guidons"
> ("directs"), presumably suggestions for people with smaller hands. However,
> he doesn't do this in the vast majority of the cases where the tenth
> spacing is written.
>
> Finally, does anyone who of any cases where an alternative was proposed for
> passages written with a short octave in mind? D'Anglebert doesn't provide
> one, for example, for the second measure of the second D minor Sarabande
> (although the solution is fairly obvious)...
>
> Best wishes,
> DM
>
>
>
> *Davitt MoroneyProfessor of Music; University OrganistDirector, University
> Baroque Ensemble*
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 13:17:13 -0500
> From: Keith Womer <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Historical harpischord ranges
>
> On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 12:59 PM, J. Claudio Di Veroli <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> I did not include it in my list because its authorship has been contested.
>
>
> Claudio,
>
> True enough. But your question was not whether any work was authentic, but
> rather whether there were musical examples that go to e''' and f''' (and
> elsewhere). And this does, whoever the culprit. Just sayin'.
>
> Keith
>
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 20:39:01 +0200
> From: "J. Claudio Di Veroli" <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Historical harpischord ranges
>
>> Davitt Moroney wrote: There's a high treble f ''' in Rameau's *Pièces de
> clavecin en Concerts *(1741). His famous recommendation for players who
> don't have the note is for the fifth finger to "play" the wooden block to
> the right of the end of the the keyboard instead... in other words, simply
> to pretend the note is there ... Doing precisely what Rameau suggests does
> work musically. The ear supplies the missing high f''', a nice aural
> illusion. ... We might also like to think about a second list, including all
> the practical "fixes" suggested by composers in cases where players might
> ....
>
> Thanks Davitt!, both for your very interesting "second list", and for
> reminding us the nice recommendation by Rameau
> (who, if my notes on the score are correct, indeed wrote two e''' in the
> second part of Le Vézinet and a single f''' at the end of La Rameau.)
>
> Best regards
> CDV
>
>
> ---
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 14:52:52 -0400
> From: Dongsok Shin <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Historical harpischord ranges
>
> Bach Triple Concerto an interesting case. If you have a harpsichord going to e''', I discovered I could tune the d#''' to f''' and play that second movement. Of course, that is provided one can tune the d# up without breaking the string.
> Dongsok
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Oct 29, 2016, at 1:30 PM, Keith Womer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 9:13 AM, J. Claudio Di Veroli <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> TREBLE f'''
>>> - I cannot find any non-Iberian harpsichord score including this note, in
>>> spite of J.-J. Rousseau showing a fully
>>>
>>> chromatic FF-f''' range (1765).
>>>
>>
>> The second movement of Bach's Triple Concerto in
>>
>> A minor BWV 1044 goes to both e''' and f'''.
>>
>> Keith Womer
>>
>> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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>
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 14:34:29 -0500
> From: Tilman Skowroneck <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Historical harpischord ranges
>
> Not unheard of. Beethoven's Op. 109 (top note c#4), for example, would have worked on his CC-c4 Broadwood, because the c4 isn't used in the entire piece and can be retuned to the c#4 that appears at the end. This also reduces the stretch in the right hand between the ongoing trill and the top melody.
>
> Tilman
>
>
>> On Sat, 29 Oct 2016 14:52:52 -0400, Dongsok Shin <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>> Bach Triple Concerto an interesting case. If you have a harpsichord going to e''', I discovered I could tune the d#''' to f''' and play that second movement. Of course, that is provided one can tune the d# up without breaking the string.
>> Dongsok
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Oct 29, 2016, at 1:30 PM, Keith Womer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 29, 2016 at 9:13 AM, J. Claudio Di Veroli <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> TREBLE f'''
>>>> - I cannot find any non-Iberian harpsichord score including this note, in
>>>> spite of J.-J. Rousseau showing a fully
>>>>
>>>> chromatic FF-f''' range (1765).
>>>>
>>>
>>> The second movement of Bach's Triple Concerto in
>>>
>>> A minor BWV 1044 goes to both e''' and f'''.
>>>
>>> Keith Womer
>>>
>>> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>>> Note: opinions expressed on HPSCHD-L are those of the individual con-
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>>
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> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 16:51:34 -0400
> From: Jonathan Addleman <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Historical harpischord ranges
>
>> On 29/10/16 10:13 AM, J. Claudio Di Veroli wrote:
>> BASS FF#
>> - I cannot find any Baroque score including this note. This is perhaps not
>> surprising as most keyboards did not have it before 1750, although quite a
>> few surely had: Corrette depicted a fully chromatic FF-e''' keyboard (1749).
>> - The earliest FF# I have found is by Antonio Soler, in sonatas composed
>> after 1750 and surely intended for the fortepiano.
>
> Forqueray's 2nd suite has some FF#s in La Bouron and La Leclair.
> Probably elsewhere too!
>
> --
> Jonathan Addleman - http://www.redowl.ca
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2016 23:15:23 -0400
> From: Gordon Collins <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Historical harpischord ranges
>
>> On 10/29/16 11:52, dc wrote:
>> Le 29/10/2016 16:13, J. Claudio Di Veroli écrit :
>>> BASS GG#/AAb
>>>
>>> - J.S. Bach scored this note in the 3rd mov. of the Concerto for Four
>>> Harpsichords BWV1065 (c.1736).
>>
>> Also several AAb's in the fugue of BWV 998.
>
> BWV 997 as well.
>
>
> Some other sets of pieces calling for notes outside of GG,AA-d3:
>
> JC Smith (c1732): eb3, e3
>
> Dagincour (1733): d#3, e3
> Dagincour states that he wrote "La Moderne" in the new style "at the request of several people". It not only calls for e3, but hammers at it and descends (through d#3) via a scale passage. There's no faking that one.
>
> Corrette (1734): FF, GG#
>
> Boismortier (1736): e3
>
> Barriere (1740-7): FF, FF#, GG#, d#3, e3
>
> Duphly (1744): FF, eb3, e3
>
> Royer (1746): FF, FF#, AAb
>
> Forqueray (1747): FF, FF#, GG#/AAb
>
> Duphly (1748): GG#, e3
>
> AL Couperin (1751), Balbastre (1759), Duphly (1758,1768): each book uses all of the range FF,GG-d3,e3.
>
>
> This is just from my small library. There was a great deal published in France alone after 1735 that I have never seen.
>
> Gordon
>
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> Note: opinions expressed on HPSCHD-L are those of the individual con-
> tributors and not necessarily those of the list owners nor of the Uni-
> versity of Iowa. For a brief summary of list commands, send mail to
> [log in to unmask] saying HELP .
> ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of HPSCHD-L Digest - 28 Oct 2016 to 29 Oct 2016 (#2016-198)
> ***************************************************************
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Note: opinions expressed on HPSCHD-L are those of the individual con-
tributors and not necessarily those of the list owners nor of the Uni-
versity of Iowa. For a brief summary of list commands, send mail to
[log in to unmask] saying HELP .
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
|
